Dynamics NAV is Dead! Long live Dynamics NAV!

Directions USA published their agenda today and the agenda for NAVTechDays is getting more clear each week too.

What can we learn from these agenda’s? Its all about Extensions, Cloud and Dynamics 365 for Financials aka project “Madeira”.

Is that a bad thing? I guess you should make that call after attending these great events. Fact is that the world is changing and so is our product.

I’ve been debating Extensions at all of my classes with my attendees and the feedback is slightly different based on the audience weather it is a very vertical partner, a customer or a traditional NAV veteran.

Extensions will work in real life, but not with NAV. Extensions will work with Dynamics 365. Why? Because Dynamics 365 essentially is Navision Financials 1.1. Microsoft brought the functionality back to basic and partners can build their vertical IP in an extension. If they need Manufacturing, they need to build it themselves. If they need Service Management, they need to build it themselves. Microsoft is delivering an ERP core with a perfect financial system and a core inventory system.

So why can’t it work with NAV? Simply because NAV was always architected for being finished by partners using open source. Nothing in NAV really works good out of the box and that is by design and this is why NAV is so loved by the veterans and hated by new people.

Directions USA is highjacked by Dynamics 365. It’s no longer about NAV. Yes, Microsoft essentially ships Dynamics 365 as NAV 2017 because they happen to share the same codebase. That explains the title of this blog post. NAV lives because of this shared platform but Microsoft invests in it because of Dynamics 365, not because they believe in NAV. We simply don’t grow fast enough.

I’m not attending Directions, I’m visiting NAVUG summit instead. Call me a dinosaur but there is a huge installed base out there that still runs NAV with customizations. I’m not against the cloud but I see it as a replacement for buying servers and software licenses which I’ve always found a stupid side effect of my job. So essentially I love the cloud.

When I am at NAVUG summit I will also look at some AX7 sessions. I want to see if that can replace NAV if customers want something they can customise. Honestly I have no idea if that will work. I am just curious. Open minded I guess.

The next one or two years will be very deciding for the future of NAV. I guess a lot will depend on how Dynamics 365 is adopted and how many partners are willing to invest in moving their verticals to extensions.

I’ve helped a few partners analysing their current solutions and I have a positive feeling about Dynamics 365 but boy, will life be different.

Enjoy summer and don’t forget to register for Directions or NAVTechDays if you want to learn what I already know. I guess being an MVP has its advantages.


Oh, small ps. If you are at Directions USA, definately attend Erik Hougaards session about Functional Programming in NAV. I am with him for 100% and he has a really nice anti-pattern for AL that few of you will expect.

This entry was posted in Conferences, Directions, Dynamics NAV, NAVTechDays, NAVUG. Bookmark the permalink.

14 Responses to Dynamics NAV is Dead! Long live Dynamics NAV!

  1. davmac1 says:

    I will miss you at Directions. It won’t be the same without you!
    This is not the first time they have tried to hijack NAV. I hope they don’t succeed this time.
    One problem I see is Microsoft gets very little money from the typical NAV sale – many times less than 10% of the total price. If they can push everything into the cloud and cut down on customizations, then their % of the sale and recurring revenue will go up dramatically – and the partner’s share will go down.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Mark Brummel says:

      Yup. You are 100% correct. I am sorry not to attend Directions but it is just not worth the effort, money and time. With all the events in few months one has to choose.


    • Dima says:

      Davmac1, can you please explain your logic about this 10% of total price. I see that I pay to MS 50-60% of total price.
      But I also think that changes in NAV pricing haven’t made it better. Contrariwise. Small cloud solutions becoming more and more popular and the functionality is already comparable with NAV. At the same time MS announces about “great” new features (sorting by column etc) what can arouse “Wow” among partners but end customer laugh at that.
      Ok, I don’t want to be unfair, of course there have been good new features also but not as much as I expect.
      So to be competitive the price level should decrease or functionality enrich. This applies for both models – on-prem and subcription.


      • Mark Brummel says:

        I think Dave means the total implementation price, not the license margin.


      • Dima says:

        I can’t see how MS can get more money from partner’s implementation money if they go for a different license model. I only see that they might get more pennies from recurring license model. And that in long-term perspective.


  2. fbedolla says:

    I dont see a growing market of madeira here in Mexico, the cloud is too expensive besides all the customization need it (Microsoft dont even get the electronic invoice or VAT to work in the right way).
    Also, mexican companies dont like to put their data in the cloud (you know, government big brother, lack of security, mistrust of people).

    I think that if Microsoft make madeira its only Nav option, they are going to kill the product here.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Mark Brummel says:

      If Madeira makes it to Mexico Microsoft will make sure that E-Invoicing and VAT will work correctly.


      • fbedolla says:

        We send the VAT analysis, errors, scenarios and everything that Microsoft asks for since Dynamics 2013. The final answer was, “we will fix it for a next release”.
        Today, NAV2013, 2013R2, 2015 and 2016 has the same errors, maybe they talk about Madeira when they say the next release but at this day, I dont have access to verify this
        For the E-Invoicing, i send all the information and the answer was “we only support 1 PAC (Certification Approved Vendor)”, so, we need to customize NAV for the other 25 in that time (and we only asks to add a password capability in the dll to send the document to a webservice).

        So, here in Mexico, Goverment asks for new standards, new rules, new processes and, because Microsoft doesnt give support to these requirements, the partners we need to make customizations (or create vertical local solutions) in every new customer 😀


      • Dima says:

        We in some EMEA countries do like the decision of MS not to develop localization packages by himself but leave it to local partners. OK, we don’t like that we have to do it for our own money. We have done it since NAV2013 and now we can say that it was good decision for our businesses.
        Before we had to wait 1-2 years to get official localization, now it’s ready couple of months after official new version launch.
        And we are already adding there additional functionality (not related with legislation) what every customer usually needs. That makes us more effective and competitive with other solutions.


    • Mark Brummel says:

      And Madeira is targeted at a new generation of business owners who grow up with the cloud. At WPC Microsoft explained that 75% of business in 2020 do not exist yet today.


      • Dima says:

        I think one problem is the size of MS. It is just a too big to make quick turns. As it is with all such companies. Unfortunately.
        In our country we have had cloud ERPs already years and years and they offer almost the same functionality as NAV does (if we are talking about “ordinary and normal” company).
        And we see that these local companies are not targeting 1-2 users customers anymore but take our NAV customers/prospects (10-20-30 users) already. They own their own IP and can do aggressive pricing. MS haven’t considered with that and still lives in the past where they want to get max price for licenses (on-prem and subscription). I very much hope that they will consider changing pricing also. I’m not sure if it’s a problem in all countries but at least in EMEA it is.
        If I take usual local ERP cloud provider whose functionality is comparable with NAV then may-be we can compete in license price (may-be in case where are few users) but if we add complex Azure then we are out of competition. So I hope Madeira will have aggressive pricing policy.


  3. Pingback: Inside project “Madeira” | Why extensions will fail to upgrade too… | NAV Skills Blog | Microsoft Dynamics

  4. Pingback: Inside project “Madeira” | Why extensions will fail to upgrade too… - Microsoft Dynamics NAV Community

  5. Pingback: Inside project “Madeira” | Why extensions will fail to upgrade too… - Mark Brummel - Dynamics NAV Users - DUG

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